I can't believe most Windows users don't know how to use toolbars, OMG.

This is most irritating. Almost all of Windows users in my company don't know how toolbar works. They don't know they can enable toolbar, take out toolbar, customize toolbar, and not even the simplest of all, move toolbar around. Toolbar is so simple, standard, and flexible. And yet, they don't know how to use it. And now, I think that's the main reason why IE7 doesn't support moveable toolbar, and that pisses me off even more. Argh.

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I can't believe most Windows users don't know how to use toolbars, OMG.

braz

Personally, I think the Ribbon is *a step* in a right direction. Menus and toolbars were invented for professional computer users, including context menus, which work great for experienced users, but are a nightmare for ordinary users ("rightclick what "). This is what they called user-friendly, but turned out quite the opposite. Mouse shouldn't have more than one button... Heck, why should users even have to bother with the mouse Give them touch screens with a keyboard and hide the manuals... with running ribbon-enabled aplications, they may not need them.

Andrej
J&#233;r&#233;mie Faucher-Goulet

This is one of the reasons I stick with the defaults. There is less to change when I reinstall and most actually work quite well y default. It is not like MS set the defaults to be difficult but to accomodate most users. With Vista I feel it is even closer to my desired settings.
Maheswar
Oh gawd, isn't that a pain. I visit customers that force me to log on to their domain controller. That automatically means an entirely new c:\documents and settings and desktop. It takes me two days to get everything back the way it should be. I've been experimenting a bit with "copy profile" stuff but don't really get what could go wrong or right with it. Smiley upside-down stuff. Hang on, lemme try:

No, that wasn't it. Well, similar...
Philipp Lamp
Humm, yeah, that make sense. One of the biggest pain of reinstalling Windows and everything else is to configure stuff. I have turn on, show hidden file, show file extension, enable quick access bar, turn off window grouping, setup all my download paths to my own folder (hate Adobe Acrobat, I can't set it and an annoying eBook holder always get created when I use Acrobat), reorganize everything in my Start Program List. And mostly my shooter control scheme. My god, to setup those takes me a whole afternoon.

But once they are setup, they are perfect for me. I do hope Live can save more than My Favorties and Cross platform email account setup, although I don't know what should be saved on Live.
Alejandro B
It's not your fault that they dont know how to read a help guide
JennyMQuinn

hej magicalclick

he its not a big problem

here (in my country) have people who dont know how to move the mouse

those people work for big companies newspapers ext.

but we dont have what to
bszenith

I understand your frustration, but if you want to be a good developer you have to realize that people have jobs to do and don't have time for such frivolities.

"Users: can't live with them, can't live without them"
robinjam
It is not a problem with the users, it is poor UI design. MSFT has been struggling with the toolbar for years with many different versions. It is not "discoverable", those 4 gray dots just don't mean anything to anybody. When a user accidentally finds it, it is usually followed by "omigod, how do I get it back where it was", followed by "let's not do *that* again". Now, we've got the Ribbon...
Michael Ruminer

I remember when toolbars first started coming out, they were a real pain in the arse if you accidentally moved things around and lost "icons" for features you wanted to use.

Also, I have seen many apps go back to the default setup. Who wants to setup your toolbars again .. and again.. and again

Your toolbar options don't roam with you. So you have to set this up on each machine you use.

When you take an updated version of the software (every few months/ years ) then you have to set these up yet again.

Ohh yea, and most users are in the app. to DO something.. not configure the toolbars so they CAN do something.

That is why most people never learned how to use these. I do use them some.. but I will abandon them in a second if they give me any 'tude!

Shaun
Justin Starnes

Quite true, Hans.

(this subject is a pet-peeve of mine, so I'm going to interject a few retorts...):

Users do not want or need to configure such things.

Users want things to stay the same.

Users don't actually mind learning how to do something as long as it pertains to what they are trying to achieve.

Users don't read manuals.

Users are not programmers.

If a user has to 'configure' something to get it to do what they want, the programmer who designed/implemented it is too disconnected from the user.

Every time another option is added to the program, it indicates an inability on the programmers part to make a decision (lazy way out: "let the user decide").

(note that when I say 'user' I mean most users - 99.9% of the population who use computers).
Steve Severance
There are people using computers everyday that are unaware of some of the most basic computer functions. I went into a staffing company where their own secretarial staff were unable to pass the secretarial testing they required to place secretaries in other businesses. The testing included basic skills in word and excell. How ironic!
Aston35
Effective UI design is an art form that is best left to professionals, not developers. Most mid-size to large software development teams nowadays have dedicated staff to do this. The upcoming changes in the next version of Visual Studio (WPF) strongly enforce this practice.

Your examples are good ones. The "square = stop", "triangle = play" UI is a miserable one. It only became common on electronic devices because it is cheap, the manufacturer doesn't have to silk-screen captions for each native language. On a single-function device like a DVD player, it is somewhat predictable what will happen when you press the triangle. On a "it can do anything" device like a PC, there's just no telling what will happen. Completely duplicating the DVD player interface and showing both the square and the triangle would be an even greater mistake. The only MSFT app I know that has a similar UI is Media Player. Note that you almost never hit that button.

The "yes/no" question on "you have a virus" is a great example too. Why do you ask this question How can the user give a correct answer If you're really convinced that the file contains a virus, just block it and tell the user why. By asking, you're admitting that you're not really sure. The user will pick up on that and think: we'll, he's not sure, I'm even less sure, I really want to run this program cause that's why I started it: bombs away!".

You have a great resource in your mom. Ask her to run your software. Whenever she gets confused, go back and change your UI until she gets it. An absolutely great read is GUI Bloopers, I learned a lot from that book. Recommended.
Back2Escape
Yeah I understand. It is usually the developers fault when the GUI is not intuitive. But before I am good computer, I am already know how to enable toolbars and move it around. Of course at the time I don't understand English at all, even if it is in Chinese I still don't know what they are saying, so, I just unable one by one, and close it down if it is not what I want. I think moving those toolbar around is no brainer, but somehow a lot of people don't bother learn, just like they don't want to learn to use a remote control sigh.
Calgon
Sigh, sometimes you think one thing is so trivial should be easy enough for users to use. Sometimes you think it is a standard, but a lot of poeple still don't know how to use it.

Just like the Bigger Triangle Button for play, I still see people ask this dumb question, "how do I play it ". OMG, just press the big button. Or like how do I turn it on, ehh, another big button How do I take picture, the big button of course. It takes me a long long time to teach my mom that Square is stop and Triangle is play. I think those symbos are pretty intuitive, but she has to memorize it instead of understand it. Her excuse is that she thinks she will have to learn it again when new stuff comes out, but of course, the symbos never changes. And then, when DVD players comes out, she thinks there is so many things to learn only because she still doesn't know triangle is play. And now, she ask me how to turn on subtitles, which is all explained on the screen, argh.

Seriously, I think they just refuse to understand, refuse to learn. If they just read the text on the screen, they should be able to do most of stuff. But they don't read it. Just like, a pop-up box say "Warning! This Program Contains Virus. Do you want to run it ", they will click yes. And even if you ask them 3 times, they will still click yes. I can name my infected file to "I am a virus" and they will run it. This is why I am so fustrated. They blame developers for everything bad happened to them, but they should be responsible too.
I can't believe most Windows users don't know how to use toolbars, OMG.